Ryann and Jordan both decided to stop drinking in their 20s after coming to terms with the fact that alcohol was negatively affecting them. They each posted about their experiences on TikTok and received not only generous support from viewers, but also many messages from people who had similar stories.

Ryann and Jordan join Elizabeth Vargas on “Heart of the Matter” to talk about why they decided to stop drinking, the tie between storytelling and connection and how their vulnerability has allowed them to find supportive communities on social media.

Episode transcript

Elizabeth Vargas:

Ryann Cooke and Jordan Shelton. Welcome to Heart of the Matter.

Jordan Shelton:

Hi. Thank you for having us.

Elizabeth Vargas:

It’s so great to meet you both. You both did something that was pretty extraordinary in my opinion. You both stopped drinking really young. How old were each of you when you each took your last drink?

Ryann Cooke:

I was 25 and I’m 27.

Jordan Shelton:

I was 28. I’m 30 now.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Okay. And you both stopped drinking during the pandemic, which is really, I remember thinking to myself, “My gosh, a lot of people had a hard time staying sober.” I actually really liked all the Zoom meetings I went to, but I remember thinking over and over and people would comment, “I cannot imagine how hard it would be to get sober during the pandemic.” How did you both do it? Jordan, you start.

Jordan Shelton:

So the height of my drinking really also started during the pandemic when food delivery services were just kind of starting to become a thing. I realized you could get margaritas delivered to your home.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Really? I hadn’t heard that one.

Jordan Shelton:

Yes, I mean, you could get a gallon of frozen margaritas delivered to my apartment. And that kind of just opened the door for drinking during the day. And that kind of staying in, I just had an experience where I got so ill that I thought I should not drink for a while. And when everyone in my life was not surprised or was not like, “What? Why would you quit drinking?” I thought, “Oh, this has been going on for a while. These people are, they’re happy for me.” No one was questioning it. And so that was almost a green light and a red flag at the same time to say, “Okay, stop drinking. And this has actually been a very big problem.”

Elizabeth Vargas:

So nobody in your life have ever said to you, “I think you have a problem with alcohol?”

Jordan Shelton:

Not directly. I have a bit of a strong personality in sort of doing what I want to do. If someone had told me, “You have a problem,” I would’ve said, “No, I don’t.” Just to be combative. And when you’re in that addictive state, that is one of the biggest, or for me, it was one of my biggest feelings was combativeness and defensive. And so I think that they knew if they brought it up, I would’ve come back at them with anger and frustration and just kind of tried to tear them down for just trying to help me. I wouldn’t have seen it as help. So I think my family and friends knew that, and they were supportive in the way of just saying, “You can be better. It’s up to you.” So I was really appreciative of them sort of sticking with me through that realization and standing by me during that when I really didn’t deserve friendship and that kind of support. So I’m very lucky and very thankful.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Ryann, what about you? How did you realize that you had a problem and you needed to stop?

Ryann Cooke:

Yeah. Well, I didn’t have the luxury of working from home during the pandemic. I worked in a hospital, so that was just a little bit stressful.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Wow. During the pandemic?

Ryann Cooke:

Yeah.

Elizabeth Vargas:

That’s not a little stressful. That’s a lot stressful.

Ryann Cooke:

Right. Yes. It was. And I didn’t really realize that I had a problem. And I mean, I would spend my days off drinking and I would spend my weekends drinking with friends, so I wasn’t really home during the time to do it. But my therapist actually was the one that made the realization because I would miss out on our therapy meetings. And so she would ask where I was and I would just say, “Oh.” I would lie to her. And then eventually I would open up and say, “Well, I was hungover. I spent the night drinking. I forgot.” And so she made the suggestion that I go to 12 step programs to find sober support. And so my first meeting was just with a bunch of old men who were veterans. And I went back to her and I was like, “That’s your worst idea yet. I don’t want to do that.”

And then she said, “Well, go to a woman’s meeting.” And I tried to do that, but they were very overbearing and overwhelming, and it was, “Welcome to our family.” And I’m like, “I don’t know you.” And it was the first day there and it was very overwhelming. So I told her that I would just do it on my own. And so I did it on my own for about 16 days and then I went back out drinking. And then one night in a bar, the guy that I just met, I realized I was crying to him and just a hot mess, very miserable, very sad. And I didn’t know him. And the next morning I woke up and I was hungover all day and I realized, “Hey, I need to stop drinking.” And I found a 12 step program that was BIPOC centered. And so I started to go to those meetings and that’s how I decided to stop drinking.

Elizabeth Vargas:

So you found a group that had people of color.

Ryann Cooke:

Yes.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Which is what BIPOC stands for.

Ryann Cooke:

Yes.

Elizabeth Vargas:

And that made you feel, I mean, that’s a big part of it, is seeing people who look like you and sound like you and feel like you and can relate to what you’ve been through. And that’s the key is to find that groove. So both of you, at some point, individually, we should point that out. You guys both did this separately, decided to start posting on TikTok about your experiences in early sobriety. Tell me about that decision. How did you decide? Because right now there is such stigma around substance use disorder, around alcoholism. People tend to really keep this a deep, dark secret, even though I think that actually fuels the stigma around this whole thing. I think if more people were open and talked about it more openly and shared their struggles, it might help other people step up and get help. But so tell me about how each of you decided to completely, I mean, to go live on TikTok and share your experiences. Ryann, you start.

Ryann Cooke:

I started because in the beginning of wanting to be sober, I remember searching for sober people, on Instagram and TikTok, and I didn’t see any Black women who were talking about it, especially on TikTok. And so that made me feel even more alone because I would click the hashtag sober and I wouldn’t see anyone who looked like me. And so I’m like, “Well, is anyone not, are they not talking about it? Are they not going through it?”

Elizabeth Vargas:

Yeah, they’re not talking about it. They’re going through it.

Ryann Cooke:

Right, right. Yeah. So I made a, this was like my six month anniversary post, and I just said like, “Hey, I’m six months sober. These are the great moments from the past six months.” And I got a lot of overwhelming, not in a bad way, but overwhelming happy feelings from people who were supportive. And I just decided to keep sharing my story because I think just seeing someone who looks like you and saying, “Hey, I’ve been through this same thing,” it inspired me to continue to do it.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Jordan, what about you?

Jordan Shelton:

Yeah, my first TikTok I posted about sobriety, I had gone to the nail salon, which is a place that I would drink heavily on my lunch break or just whenever.

Elizabeth Vargas:

At the nail salon?

Jordan Shelton:

Yes, girl, they will give you up to four glasses of champagne in the hour that you are there. And so I would just go on my lunch break thinking that this is normal and cool and fun and hip, and I would just get drunk in the 55 minutes of my lunch break.
And so during the pandemic nail salon shut down, and when they finally started to open back up, I had not been drinking for about three or four months. So I went in and the girls knew me, a regular kind of thing, and she said, “Jordan, a glass of champagne?” And I said, “Oh, I quit drinking.” And her and three other girls kind of stopped, and like, “What? What do you mean? What are you talking about? Good for you.” And when they weren’t surprised, I was like, “Oh my gosh, I was so bad that the people at the nail salon were going, as I’m leaving, they’re probably going, ‘Oh, dear God, prayers to her for getting home safely.'” Or just that they even noticed how drunk I was getting in how short of a time. And I was thinking that it was just going completely unnoticed.

And so to hear her reaction of being happy for me and also just shocked that I turned down a drink, I came home and made a TikTok. I just thought it was kind of crazy how she reacted. And like I said, I mean, I am such a small part of their world, but to have such a big reaction felt so much more personal than just me being a customer. So I made a TikTok and I got a huge response kind of like you, Ryann. People were just so kind and that wasn’t something I was expecting. I got a lot of messages from girls my age going, “Oh my God, I drink five champagnes at the nail salon too. I didn’t know that was weird. And you’re driving home. I didn’t realize that that was a red flag or a problem or it could become a problem.” So getting messages from people in our age demographic going, “Oh, you can still live a normal, goofy, happy life without having to be just wasted or a drink in your hand all the time.”

Elizabeth Vargas:

Did either one of you have any worries or even regrets later about being so public with the fact that you had a problem with alcohol and gave it up?

Jordan Shelton:

I didn’t. I’ve always been one to kind of post on social media what I’m doing. I like to try to be funny. And I’ve always kind of been one to share. And so people who saw me on social media while I was drinking, they probably knew I had a problem too. So I think when I finally did go public, if you will, people were, they were proud of me and that felt really great.

Elizabeth Vargas:

What about you, Ryann?

Ryann Cooke:

No, like you, Jordan, I had always just been sharing my life. And I think when I did open up, I got a reaction from my friends who did drink, and they would say, “Well, I do the same thing. That’s not a problem. You just want to be a part of something.” I did have friends that would say that, “You just want to be a part of a program.” Like I just wanted to be a part of AA or something. And so it was kind of weird because I had friends who were supportive, and then I had friends who were like, “We do the same thing. That’s normal. I don’t have a problem.”

Elizabeth Vargas:

Yeah, please don’t tell me I have a problem, because you needed to stop. Right.

Ryann Cooke:

Right. Yeah. So it was just a two type of thing. But I didn’t feel any shame or guilt and I felt good talking about something that was successful for me.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Did anybody reach out to you on TikTok and say, “You helped me, your posts helped me re-examine my relationship with alcohol, or you helped me stay sober?”

Ryann Cooke:

I’ve had a lot of those type of comments, like, “I’m following you now. I’m just starting my journey. These are goals. This is where I want to be. I want to be sober before 32.” I’ve even had someone who said, “You’ve helped me on my mom journey.” I’m not a mom, but I think that those type of messages just really warm my heart and make me want to keep just sharing about my journey.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Your posts can sometimes be very vulnerable and very personal. Jordan, I was struck by a post that you made where you talked about being tempted to drink. You were in tears and very vulnerable and actually said, just take a listen, but you actually said, “Now what do we do?”

Jordan Shelton:

Hi. So I am a year and a half sober. And I’m on a cruise with my family.

My family’s a little chaotic. Things are a little bit stressful. And so we’re finally all settled in, hanging out. And this is the first time I’ve been on a cruise since I’ve quit drinking. I mean, we’ve been on probably 15 cruises. I’ve been blacked out on every single one of them the entire time. And this one’s been kind of chaotic because my grandparents are old, so I’m trying to help them, blah, blah, blah. And this is the first time that I’ve wanted to drink to, not just have a good time, because I’m like, “Fuck. I need a drink.” And I’m kind of disappointed in myself. So what do we do? How do we fix this? Tips and tricks would be appreciated. Thank you.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Tell me about that day and why posting about it helped.

Jordan Shelton:

Yeah. So I was going on a cruise with my family, my two grandparents who are in their mid ’80s, my mom, and then my cousins, and an aunt and uncle. And we are huge cruise people. We’ve been on probably 17 cruises. That’s my grandpa’s, that’s his happy place. So that’s what we do.

And this was the first year where we were going on a cruise where I was sober. And my sisters were not there. I have two younger sisters. They’re twins. And they are just the best time. I mean, they are wild animals. They do not know a bad time. They don’t know a stranger. And so I knew that this cruise would be different because I was alone, and I wasn’t drinking, which are the only two things to do on a cruise really, is socialize and you drink and lay out.

And my grandma has had a few strokes and a brain tumor removed so she really has a lot of trouble moving around. And it had just come to a point where there was so much tension with my family and trying to figure out the best way to figure out how to maneuver her and doing things like helping her go to the restroom and do her hair. Just those things kind of create more tension. And my family, we are all very similar. We’re all very strong headed, opinionated women. And we’re all women. My grandpa’s the only man so he just hears everything from all directions. And I had a panic attack, I guess? I just started freaking out a little bit, and I thought, “If I don’t do something, I’m going to go have a drink and ruin a year and a half of sobriety just to feel that rush of something.”

And so I went back to my room and I was like, “You know what? I’m just going to make a video. I’m going to make a TikTok.” And so I had seen other sober people on TikTok. Like you, Ryann, I searched sobriety and had my creators that I liked to watch and that were kind of like me. And so I just went on and said, “I don’t know what to do.” I don’t go to meetings. I didn’t have a huge sober community. And it really hadn’t been an issue up until that point. I had never had any temptations. I was so proud of myself. The adrenaline of another day of sobriety, another month, it was like getting a gold star. And I just thought, “I am about to throw all of this away, the only thing that I have completed from start to finish and stuck with and committed to, and if I lose that, I’m going to lose my freaking mind. And I’m already losing my mind on this boat with a billion people and my family in a very tiny room.”

And so I just made a TikTok and said, “What do we do? What do I do? How do I get help? Please, someone, anyone, tell me what to do and I will do it, outside of having a drink.” And instantly I got just an overwhelming response. People were so kind, so many just sweet words, like I said, thanking me for my vulnerability. And I didn’t even plan on doing all that. You know what I mean? I just was putting it out there. “Hey, anyone, please, like I said, tell me what to do and I’ll do it.” And then when we were walking around the boat, a couple of people that were also on the cruise had seen my TikTok and-

Elizabeth Vargas:

Wait, you’re kidding me? On the cruise ship?

Jordan Shelton:

Yeah. So I guess a couple other people had bought the internet package. And so that was crucial for me. I was like, “Okay, this is not the time for me to unplug.” So a woman came up to me and she was like, “Did you just make a TikTok?” And I said, “Yes, I did.” And she said, “I’m here with my family too, and I get it, and thank you so much. And my sister has a drinking…” went into her family’s deal. And it was just like, “Okay, we’re literally, we’re really truly not alone. I’m not the only one. I’m not the first. I’m not going to be the last.”

And it just kind of opened the door to be able to talk about it more publicly, and that it was okay to be vulnerable. And I know people are always poking fun at people crying on TikTok. And I’m the first one to make fun of someone who has cried on TikTok. So that to me was just kind of like, “Okay, this is okay. It’s just TikTok. It’s just another day. Do what you want.” They opened the door for me to be able to fully fully be myself on that platform and to know that I’m not alone in that, on TikTok or in real life.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Well, no, of course you’re not. But a lot of times, oh my gosh, they call them depths of despair. People feel so lonely. Ironically, as you said, you’re on a cruise ship with thousands of people all around you and sometimes the loneliest place to be is in a crowd. I’m curious what the messages were that you got to that video that helped you. What were some of them? What stuck out?

Jordan Shelton:

Honestly, the message that helped the most were people just saying, “You made a video, you didn’t take a drink. And that’s the first step. As cringey as you think this is, or as embarrassing as you feel like it might be right now, wouldn’t you feel more embarrassed or more ashamed had you gone and had a drink and ruined this sobriety, this thing that you’d worked for?”
And so really was the messages kind of like that and then messages from men and women who are around my age going, “Oh, I didn’t even know that that was an option to be sober or to do something like go on a vacation on a cruise where that kind of is the thing to do, and say, ‘Okay, you can do this and keep us updated. Keep us updated, if you will, and let us know how you’re doing.'” And so I became accountable to TikTok in that moment.

And, Ryann, kind of like you said, I’ve never been to AA. Like the people in the community, they’re all, like you said, older men, not a whole lot to relate to in that area, and that’s totally fine. TikTok has become my AA, if you will, and my accountability and where I can get my tips and tricks and community.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Ryann, you’ve been nodding almost nonstop during Jordan’s story. Do you have a similar one where you were having a vulnerable moment or wanting to drink and instead of picking up a drink, you turned on your phone?

Ryann Cooke:

I can definitely relate to when things get very overwhelming for me. And trying to figure out what to do in terms of things can be very hard. And I’ll say, “I didn’t really get sober for things to just be so hard all the time. Life is just lifing.” But, yeah, there has been times where I’ve picked up my phone, and thankfully because of platforms like a TikTok or Instagram, mainly for me, I’ve been able to find sober friends and just maybe texting them and saying, “Hey, do you have a moment to talk?” And if they do, just calling them and speaking to them and saying, “Today’s not a good day. I need to cry. Maybe we can go out.” My friends here in Tulsa, a lot of people know that, well, everyone kind of knows that I’m sober. So everyone’s just been super supportive and helpful, especially in that aspect. So, yeah, I can totally relate to just feeling so overwhelmed trying to figure out what’s next. And I’m just glad that I have that community to talk to.

So congratulations on almost a month with no drinking. I know how hard it can be to say “never again, I’m not going to drink again” and to just say permanently “this is not… I’m never going to do this again.” So instead, you can say “one day at a time” and you can take it day by day. I know for me that going through therapy and going to support groups and talking about how my drinking in the past negatively affected my life, like my relationship with self, my friendships, my romantic relationships, my digestive system, my sleep, my body, my organs. And realizing how negatively alcohol was really affecting my life. As time progressed, I was like “yeah I don’t think I ever want to do this again. I don’t think I want to go back to the hangovers and blacking out and not remembering my night and escaping from life in a sense.” So, I’m just so proud of your progress and I hope that you are too.”

Elizabeth Vargas:

So we know that, I mean, experts talk about the importance of not feeling isolated and not feeling alone, not feeling like you’re the only one. And we know that your videos are helping people see other people going through the same thing. How has posting on TikTok helped each of you? How does it help you stay sober? I mean, you sort of got into that a little bit just a second ago, Jordan, in that video that you posted and how instead of drinking, you made a video, and then you immediately got positive feedback from another woman on the cruise who had just seen it. I’m just curious from each of you how posting actually helps you not only stay sober, but be happy.

Jordan Shelton:

So for me, like I was saying I don’t go to AA, I don’t have an outside sober group, if you will. So for me, like I was saying, it’s just created a community of women mostly. I think my following is like 98.9% female. So I’m surrounded by a group of women who all have that common theme in their life, which is, of course, sobriety.

And so for me, it’s kind of a release. It’s kind of like I can get it out of my head and then it’s out of my head. It’s on the internet. If I want to delete it later, I will. If I want to keep it, I do. But it’s almost like, I told my therapist as well, that it’s kind of my counseling sessions where if I have an intrusive thought, I can just spit it out. And sometimes I get responses that are thought-provoking or I go, “Oh, that’s a great idea.” And so for me, that’s a lot of what it is, just kind of getting these intrusive thoughts and these overwhelming ideas out of my head and into a different space where I can then reflect and reevaluate.

Elizabeth Vargas:

You’re describing it something like video journaling.

Jordan Shelton:

Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess it is. I’m really not TikTok savvy. I don’t know how to do trends or the sounds or whatever. So one girl told me it’s like I do a FaceTime TikTok where I just talk to TikTok like on FaceTime with a friend. And I really have enjoyed it.

Elizabeth Vargas:

What about you?

Ryann Cooke:

Well, for me, I love to create content. And I love to travel. And I love to share my life on that aspect. And then I also love to find mocktails at different restaurants that are aesthetically pleasing. So I love to post that so that people can see there’s other options. You don’t just have to go order a cocktail because it looks cute. You can also get a mocktail too. So it’s helpful, for one, because I love to be creative in that aspect. And then also I love to reach other Black women or other women of color who can see a different side of life, and maybe something that they didn’t imagine or that Black women aren’t talking about right now on a platform like TikTok. Well, some Black women aren’t talking about. So I think for people to see that, it’s inspiring, and it goes against the stigma, of course, in my community, of saying, “Hey, I had a problem with drinking. This is what I did to stop. And you can do the same thing if they desire.”

Elizabeth Vargas:

You actually found the Sober Black Girls Club.

Ryann Cooke:

Yes.

Elizabeth Vargas:

And I actually interviewed the founder of that with Katie Couric on a podcast that we did together. How did that help you finding that community of Black women?

Ryann Cooke:

It was very, I don’t know, it was great, because going to those AA meetings and Sober Black Girls Club also has meetings, support meetings too. And so to be around other Black women who were not in a traditional AA-based setting, because I thought that the only way to get sober was AA, because I had been in AA for about a year. And I had a sponsor and then I had a bunch of AA friends, and they’re like, “You have to do your 12 steps. You can’t leave after the fourth step. If you leave after the fourth step, your life is over. You have to do this. You have to do that. And you can’t just move across the country.”

So when I found Sober Black Girls Club and I realized, “Hey, I can live life a different, I don’t have to do AA’s version of sobriety. There’s different versions of sobriety that people are doing.” And it’s not so religious based. And Sober Black Girls Club, their meetings are different topics. And it doesn’t feel sometimes depressing or I don’t have to diagnose myself as an alcoholic. I don’t have to work through 12 steps. I don’t have to attend all of the meetings. So it was really freeing for me to realize that I don’t have to stick with this hardcore program.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Right. Yeah, listen, I am part of AA, and believe in it, but I also believe very strongly there’s no wrong way to get sober. I mean, personally, it just feels like if alcohol’s a problem for you and you find a way to stop drinking through some sort of community, or even on your own, good for you.

What about the fact that, listen, a lot of times I feel like with social media, you have to put on my big girl pants before I open up Twitter or Instagram, because you’re opening yourself up to kooky people and rude people, who might be very unhappy in their own lives and want to take that out on you. Have you gotten any backlash or any negative stuff or any haters for any reason as a result of you guys sharing so openly?

Jordan Shelton:

I really haven’t.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Good.

Jordan Shelton:

People have been really kind. The only negative comments I’ve gotten were just the way I look.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Oh my God, I just hate what people do to young women and women of any age and girls of any age on appearance. It’s really-

Jordan Shelton:

Yeah. So seeing that, I was kind of like, “Okay, if this is all my getting canceled or whatever, I will take it.” Just because everyone else has been so so supportive. But I really haven’t had a lot of negative backlash online. Mostly, kind of like Ryann was saying earlier, most of the negative backlash I’ve gotten was from people that I know in real life who really didn’t understand and were finding it annoying that I’m posting on TikTok or talking about it or whatever. And I think that says a little more about them than it does about me.

Elizabeth Vargas:

People were annoyed that you were sharing your own journey.

Jordan Shelton:

Right. Or just maybe finding it a little cringey or uncomfortable. Or people who knew me before sobriety maybe had a hard time understanding the hard left that I had taken. So again, I think, again, kind of like you were saying, Ryann, when you talk about being sober, it forces other people to look at their own drinking habits. And that’s scary for a lot of people, especially now and our in age range. It’s not comfortable. It’s not fun.

Elizabeth Vargas:

I don’t know if you guys remember, there were a couple of really big books that came out, I think you’re probably too young to remember, but called “Sippy Cups are for Chardonnay” and “Nap Time is the New Happy Hour.” There were these books written by this mother who was celebrating the mommy culture of cocktails and play dates and that sort of thing. And she came out several years. She had a great blog that was very popular. And then I interviewed her for a special I did on women and drinking. And she had to announce several years later that she was an alcoholic and had stopped drinking.

And the backlash she got from women on her blog who felt like she was taking away the permission she had given them to drink. In other words, they didn’t say, “Oh, I’m so glad for you that you’ve decided to stop doing this, for whatever reason.” But they viewed it as, “You’re taking away the okay for us to have wine at noon at a kid’s birthday party and wine at the playground when I take my child out to the teeter-totters,” or whatever it is.

Jordan Shelton:

Right.

Elizabeth Vargas:

So it’s an interesting sort of psychology.

Jordan Shelton:

Definitely. Yeah. Well, and like you were saying, for me, it was was always my idea to have a drink. And of course, everyone else is going to go, “Oh, okay, okay.” And then now that I don’t drink, there’s much less of that. My friends don’t drink as much either because they don’t have someone in their ear going, “Let’s go get a drink. Let’s go get a drink. Let’s go for drinks at lunch, let’s go,” whatever. So my friends are drinking a lot less. And they’re still able to drink because they don’t have a problem with it, and they’re able to put it down and walk away and come back to it appropriately. So I found that really interesting in my sobriety journey.

Elizabeth Vargas:

I’m curious, we’ve got all sorts of public pressure in the government to ban TikTok. There’s a move now to restrict teenagers to an hour of TikTok a day. I know my kids spend way too much time on TikTok. What will you do, if in fact, there’s only a small chance of this happening, but they’re talking about it a lot on Capitol Hill. If they ban TikTok in this country, what are you going to do?

Ryann Cooke:

I share my journey also on Instagram too. so I don’t understand the reasoning behind banning TikTok. I’ve seen all of that backlash that it gets, but it seems to me like it’s a very educational platform, away from all of the negativity. But I also just last week won $11,000 to fund a sober app, so I am starting-

Elizabeth Vargas:

Wow. Congratulations.

Jordan Shelton:

Congratulations, Ryann.

Elizabeth Vargas:

How’s that going to work?

Ryann Cooke:

So I would love for the app to just be community based, to have some progress tracking so people can track their last drink or anything else they deem important to their sobriety journey. I would also love to make it culturally sensitive so that people can feel that they have someone else to relate to. So I just won 11,000 at this company called Building Tulsa here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and they had a female founder pitch night so I pitched my idea. And yeah, I’m now staying-

Elizabeth Vargas:

Congratulations. Oh my gosh.

Ryann Cooke:

Thank you.

Elizabeth Vargas:

What will the name of the app be?

Ryann Cooke:

It’s called Rise. So just rising or radiate your sobriety type of thing. And, yeah, I’m really excited to just start that process. So if TikTok does get closed, there can be something for people to go to who are sober or sober curious, thinking of drinking less.

Elizabeth Vargas:

And what about you, Jordan? Are you also on Instagram, or what will you do if the government, and the reason, it’s not in this case, a knock against TikTok per se, but the fact that everybody fears the Chinese government is mining data from each and every one of us who are on TikTok.

Jordan Shelton:

Right. So for me, first of all, Ryann, congratulations. I follow Ryann on Instagram. So I saw her going through that. And if you don’t follow Ryann, you should. It’s fun watching you travel and like you were saying do all those things and congratulations. So if TikTok does shut down, you can find me on Rise. But I’m also on the Sober Together app, which I love. And that is kind of like a TikTok for sober people. It’s really nice because there’s not as much censorship as there is on TikTok, so you can use words like addiction, and if you want to cuss, you can cuss. If you want to talk about doing X, Y, or Z drug, you can talk about that openly. So I really like that there’s not a lot of restriction on the conversations. But I also post on Instagram a little bit and I’m working on refining that and moving TikToks from TikTok to Instagram just to create more community, reach more people.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Right.

Jordan Shelton:

And I just enjoy doing it.

Elizabeth Vargas:

What are these restrictions on TikTok? What do you mean?

Jordan Shelton:

Just in the language. Sometimes my videos will get flagged for speaking about addiction in a certain way. Or I went on live one time and was talking about a sort of a mocktail company called Bonbuz, and I was making a mocktail on live and they kicked me off live because they thought I was drinking or doing harmful substances.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Wait a minute, you’re not allowed to drink a cocktail on TikTok?

Jordan Shelton:

I guess someone had reported my video for harmful substances. So I don’t think it was just drinking specifically. I think whoever reported it was just maybe trying to mess with me or something like that.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Yeah, it sounds like it.

Jordan Shelton:

Right.

Elizabeth Vargas:

That doesn’t make any sense.

Jordan Shelton:

So sometimes they’ll flag a video if you use words like addiction or alcoholism.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Really?

Jordan Shelton:

Yes. Yeah, they’re kind of weird about that. And I don’t know what exactly sets it off or what makes a video flag versus not. So sometimes you kind of have to be careful around the language that you use on TikTok. But like I was saying, Sober Together, you can kind of say anything you’ve done. And in addiction, of course, a lot of it is trading like war stories.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Yeah. I mean, that’s the most powerful part of recovery meetings.

Jordan Shelton:

Right. That’s kind of the whole point, right?

Elizabeth Vargas:

Yeah. You hear other people tell stories that are just like yours.

Jordan Shelton:

Exactly. Someone’s always done something worse.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Yeah.

Jordan Shelton:

So whatever you’ve done.

Elizabeth Vargas:

I can one up you on that one.

Jordan Shelton:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Someone’s always willing to. And that’s my favorite part of it is when someone goes, “Oh, you think that’s bad? Listen what I did.” It’s kind of like, oh, we’re all just doing our best now. It’s okay. It’s all going to be okay.

Elizabeth Vargas:

There is great power in recovery in sharing stories, and great power in recovery in community, and both of you have managed to create that community by sharing your stories. So, bottom line, no matter what happens with TikTok, you’re going to continue, Ryann, on your new app, Jordan, on the app that you’re on, and as well as both of you guys on Instagram. You guys both plan on continuing with this no matter what.

Ryann Cooke:

Yes.

Jordan Shelton:

Oh, yeah.

Elizabeth Vargas:

All right. Well, let’s give our audience a chance to find you guys both on TikTok and Instagram. What are your handles?

Jordan Shelton:

So my TikTok handle is _onlyjudycanjudgeme. And then my Instagram is-

Elizabeth Vargas:

Okay, where did you come up with that?

Jordan Shelton:

My grandma, like I was saying, she’s very old and she has experienced a bit of dementia. So all she does is she to loves to watch Judge Judy. So that is what we do. And when we were kids, she would always say, “I’m going to do what I want. Only Judy can judge me.” So I always thought, “Okay, you know what? I don’t care what anyone else says, only Judy can judge me, truly.”

Elizabeth Vargas:

Okay. So it’s _onlyjudycanjudgeme.

Jordan Shelton:

Yes. Yes. And then Instagram is @jshelt33.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Okay. All right. How about you, Ryann?

Ryann Cooke:

On TikTok, I am thegirlRyann, so that’s T-H-E-G-I-R-L-R-Y-A-N-N. And on Instagram, I’m girlRyann, so that’s G-I-R-L-R-Y-A-N-N.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Okay. And look for your app Rise.

Ryann Cooke:

And look for my app Rise. Yes, exactly.

Elizabeth Vargas:

Well, Ryann and Jordan, it’s been a pleasure talking to you. It’s incredible that at a time when we’re hearing about how these social media apps are really destructive in a lot of ways, especially for young women like yourselves, that you have a story that is positive, that is showing how young women can unite on these social media apps and actually help each other. And I just really wish you guys both the best of luck and congratulations to each of you on your sober journeys thus far, and I hope it continues to be a happy, joyous one for you both. Thank you.

Jordan Shelton:

Thank you so much.