Constantine Maroulis, welcome to Heart of the Matter. Great to have you.
Thank you for having me.
So I remember watching you compete on American Idol. You were the cool rocker guy. Would you say that was your sort of reputation, your personality?
I think so. I think so. I had come fresh off tour with Rent, the big Broadway show at the time, and had my cool leather jacket and my chunky highlight, I don’t know, post-grunge kind of hair going on. I don’t know, they just had those cameras on me right away. So I played it up and they seemed to dig it and we had a good time, for sure.
You were different than a lot of the other contestants that we normally see on that show. I think in addition to your talent, that’s what made you stand out.
Thank you. I think I was lucky. It was a few things. I had a kind of interesting name. I was this different looking guy for them, for what they had built a show on, sort of a kind of pop vibe up until then, but they had opened the age up a little bit that year, so I was 28 or so. I was already touring on Broadway shows and with bands and such. So I think I just had a different spirit, a different energy, and certainly it worked for me. Part of being an actor is being a hustler, and I think I definitely just kind of gave into the experience and really, it was a beautiful one for me.
No regrets?
None. No. I remember early on I used to think back, “Shoot, I should have done this song, or I should have done this.” But it was still so early on in the show’s inception. I mean, they didn’t even realize how massive it was. I mean, they did, believe me, they were getting paid, but it was hard to even keep up with the advances in tech and media, with the digital format of music turning over and licensing songs and huge artists, their reluctancy, even to give their songs to artists to be able to perform. Because they weren’t sure if it was something that would affect them in a good way, or a negative way. But I think they soon found out that even if you went up there and screwed up their song, their whole catalog would spike and it was a good thing. The Idol had quite an effect on the whole pop culture scene for many years.
You were on the show when it was still really huge. I’m not saying it’s not a juggernaut now, but it doesn’t seem to be in the cultural zeitgeist. The ratings have definitely dropped off. When you were on, it was kind of at its peak, wasn’t it?
Oh, absolutely. Season four, season five. I think that’s as big as it possibly could get. We had Carrie Underwood, of course. She was the sort of dream contestant, something you could have maybe put together in a laboratory, honestly, perfect casting and really a wonderful talent as well. And we saw her grow right before our eyes. So for me as a professional already, I was like, okay, I need to get as far along on this thing as I can and try to take this platform and create longevity, opportunity, hopefully build a team that believes and trusts in me. And if you can believe it, it’ll be about 20 years since I’ve been on the show.
What? Oh my God. Really?
Yes. In fact, this summer it would be 20 years since my audition, and then the show really didn’t air until 2005.
Well, you not only were on the show at the real height of its popularity, you lasted quite a long time. You survived all the eliminations. How did it change your life? Because this is a podcast about mental health, about substance use. How did it change you, if at all, in those respects?
I was pretty lucky. Like I said, I was a little older at the time to have that-
You were an adult, you weren’t a teenager, you were an adult.
I was. I had life experience. I was born in New York City. I had a loving family. I had an older brother and sister that I idolized, that were much older than me, certainly my brother to mentor me in the music business. I trained at the Boston Conservatory Berklee College of Music. I had done shows everywhere, really sort of worked my way up. In a way, it was kind of my, I don’t know, my graduate program when I got to Idol. Okay, now I can apply those media skills and training that I’ve learned along the way, or the hiccups I’ve had on Rent tour. I can correct those kinds of things now when I give a quote and whatnot, or I know how to handle myself backstage, I know that the crew is the most important element of what we’re doing here, the people behind the camera, and building those relationships. And it allowed me to sort of be comfortable in my skin.
But I remember during the early part of the competition, let’s say Hollywood Week or whatnot, even as someone with experience, I was very nervous and insecure. And I remember throwing up and such out of nerves on those mornings, couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me. Yeah. So it’s big, but nothing can compare you for those stakes, those 30 million people a night, live, watching you, not just the big audience inside the studio, but then that massive audience at home, global audience that it was at the time. It was thrilling, but also, yeah, a lot of pressure, for sure.
Wow. You say that during the time that you were on American Idol, occasionally you would sneak out and go to clubs with one of the other contestants.
Probably just by myself more than anything, yeah.
Really?
Yeah. I was a little bad in that respect, but you have to remember, this was before the paparazzi craze. There was one or two guys out there with video cameras that would still have to go home and upload it and cut it and edit it and post it to something. It was just a different time. We saw in those first few years that really change.
And so I was able to sort of go out and have those experiences. I was older. I had been on Rent tour, I was out and partying and socializing. When you’re doing eight shows a week of that show, it’s hard to just go home to your hotel and lock yourself in. So the werewolf would come out a little bit on Hollywood while I was out there. And it was really surreal. Because I knew people from New York that connected me to some friends in L.A., I knew the places to go. I was meeting people, I was walking into parties I never could have envisioned myself at with the biggest stars in the world. I had a really good time, but I was always serious about the work, but I also wanted to enjoy the experience while I could.
So nothing out of control.
Nothing ever out of control. I’ve never been someone that really allowed, I don’t know, drinking.
You were disciplined. I mean, listen, touring on a show like Rent, you don’t get a job like that and keep a job like that unless you’re being disciplined.
Correct. Now, granted in my 20s, I could go out and drink after every show and still do eight shows a week. I’d go sing an extra gig or two with my band even. So now we’re doing 10 shows a week, no problem, no problem.
Ah, youth. Youth.
On the off day, I’ll rest at my place. But then all of a sudden, 28, 29, 30, that starts to change. So the drinking can really, really affect the instrument for me. So that’s when I always knew when I was drinking more than regularly, something was going on. And something I needed to check in with. I know this is terrible for me and my instrument, which I’m so vain about. So that’s when I would have to check in and see, so what’s going on? Why are we doing this today?
And that worked for you for a bit, right? I mean, you have a pretty regular relationship with drugs and alcohol, until you didn’t, which was right before COVID. But leading up to that, you were always able to say, “Okay, hold on. I need to be able to sing well. I need to be able to perform well. I got to rein this in.” Or, “Why am I out partying a little bit too much? What’s going on here?” You had enough self-awareness.
Always. I always did. And a close relationship with my family and friends since kindergarten that keep me in check. And yes. So until it wasn’t cool, I was in a very good situation I feel like. I was able to socialize and take part a little bit, and then I could button it up and lock it up when I had a long stretch of work that would be physically demanding on either my voice or my body, your looks and whatnot. Until maybe it wasn’t okay anymore.
Yeah. Well like it is for so many people. You had a lot of success on Broadway. You won a Tony Award for best actor in Rock of Ages. You starred in several different shows. I mean, gosh, getting to Broadway, I have friends of mine who are starving actors. Just getting a role is hard. Getting to Broadway is even harder, and getting the acclaim that you earned with your work there is an extraordinary level of success.
Wow. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. That’s kind of you to say, and I’m very proud of my body of work, but I’m hungry to do more and there’s nothing in the world like being a part of something new and having the opportunity to create something from the ground up, a character, those collaborations, the wonderful ensemble that we put together, the creative team. It’s what I live for.
So in 2010 you became a dad with Angel Reed, who was a co-star of yours on the show, Rock of Ages, on Broadway, and then things seemed to go a bit off the rails for you five years later, in 2015, what happened?
We were working hard on a show. We had a beautiful time on Broadway together. We were sort of showmancing, I was connected to someone else, a bit more long distance. It was always very casual, but obviously a lot of love between us. And I was set to take the show out on the road for up to two years for a ton of money. It’s a show that basically I helped create and bring to life and that I’ve become now synonymous with. And so there was a lot on the line for me to head this show out on the road so our investors could continue to recoup and support them how they’ve supported us. And I was going to do very well. I had not planned to have a child, and we got pregnant, and of course I went all along with it. She’s an incredible mom, Angelina.
I just think that, yeah, it was just tumultuous from the very beginning. There’s a lot of love between us, but then I don’t think that we were ever necessarily meant to be together. We were certainly meant to have Malena together. And my father was very sick at the time, and then we lost my dad a couple of years later. So I was so grateful that he got to meet Malena before he passed away. My brother and sister don’t have children. And so there were all these wonderful things. I think we tried to give it a go. At some point we left the city, moved out to the suburbs, to the town that I grew up in and I was very comfortable in. She was not. I just think that we just were missing each other on many levels and we probably tried to force a square peg into a round hole, and it just didn’t work.
And unfortunately, just a lot of unnecessary drama, very costly on many levels. And my mother would always say, “It does take two to tango.” So I probably could have made better choices at the time to maybe not allow the dynamic to ever get to that just very low place. And although I feel like we powered through that like adults, as best as we could and did everything to keep Malena very sort of adjusted and grounded and thriving in an excellent school system and community, it was really difficult. And I feel like I lost so much. I lost my reputation. The people that believed in me at the time professionally.
You’re talking about, you were arrested twice, and that’s what led to the reputational damage, as well as I’m sure other damage and personal relationships. But you were arrested twice. It was a volatile relationship. Regardless of whose fault it is or what happened, clearly things were difficult, and you weren’t handling them well.
Very.
Right? Is that fair to say?
Correct.
Obviously. Yeah.
Correct.
So what happened to your life after that happened? Because to be arrested, not once, but twice is pretty traumatic, and not great, to put it mildly.
Not great at all. And just about as low as you could feel at that point. Just embarrassed and ashamed.
Were these because of fights that either two of you were having?
We did. I mean, I think…
I mean the two arrests, because I’m sure our listeners will be wondering about being arrested.
Of course, of course. So we’ve both been arrested for simple assault, and we’ve both had criminal complaints on each other at the time. Essentially she was in a place where, “I’m going to call the police, I’m going to call the police.” And it was just like, you call the police enough, someone’s getting arrested at some point. I’d never been in trouble before in my life. I grew up in this town. I knew all the cops. I knew the chief growing up. Everybody knows me to be not a troublemaker. And I just think that we were in an unhealthy dynamic and obviously we worked all of that out. I was never charged. The charges were dropped. The second arrest was really technically because of a violation of the restraining order at the time, which was essentially, she was accidentally contacted by me and my team on an email.
So wait, you emailed her and that was a violation of the restraining order?
Yeah, that’s what it was. That’s what it was. And it wasn’t even like a direct contact. It was actually a screenshot of some communications that she had sent me, me sending it to my team, because unfortunately, these are the ugly things that happen behind the scene. You have to try to protect yourself as best as possible. So people that are helping you, they need to see all of that, all of the contact that is nasty and whatnot. So she accidentally got kicked one of those emails and that was considered contact. And she went to the judge and they had me picked up again. So that was just unfortunate because that was just so insanely costly on so many levels. It looked terrible. Obviously I would never go out of my way to violate a legal order like that. I totally was abiding by everything that had happened, and it was just unfortunate.
But that’s just when you know it’s just spiraling a bit. But she was in big trouble as well, and I think the judge and the lawyers and the DA and such agreed that we can obviously mutually decide to drop these complaints on each other. And it’s been expunged from my record. You won’t see a mugshot out there. It’s just a bummer time in my life because the people that really know me, they can’t even believe that that happened. It was just kind of a surreal moment. And I’ve done so much work on myself since, and my daughter and I have such a strong, and we’ve never not had a very, very strong dynamic all these years that it’s almost like, yeah, it was just a bad dream. It was a bad dream. And Angel and I have done really great work together to help each other, often over the years, and to co-parent so successfully all these years as well. And she’s doing great. She’s starting a new business and I’m very happy for her.
Co-parenting is hard. It’s not easy.
It is. It is. In a way, when there’s just the one in between us, it makes for this just very different dynamic. If she had a brother and a sister in the mix with her and then the two of us, it changes. It changes.
You, a few years later, say you fell into a pretty deep depression, and began drinking heavily as a result. What was going on? You were self-medicating? What were you doing? Did somehow it make you feel better?
Yeah. Yeah. It does. You think it does, you think it makes you feel better, but it doesn’t. So I think what had happened was, I went through that… Pardon me.
That’s okay.
A very traumatic time in my life. Kind of got through that, found some new trusted people that really believed in me, signed with a great agency, with very strong women in the office that got me, that believed in me, that believed me, that were fans of me to help sort of build me up. That was a great thing for me, because I know that I’m a good guy. And I also found a great partner in my manager, Jason, and his team. So with this small little group, we just started the building blocks again, got back in the studio, wrote a bunch of new songs, hadn’t done that in a long, long time. Started chipping away with the agent, did a play in New York.
I’m known to sing the high rock and roll songs, instead I did a play at Second Stage in a small venue, very well-reviewed, got my rave in the New York Times. He’s back, et cetera, started kind of building those relationships again, talking about shows that were going to be a vehicle for me, competing heavily at film and TV again, a guest star here or there. So it felt like we were getting on, we were moving past that huge bump in my life.
But then that summer, and maybe it started earlier, it just felt like I was up for every project, everything, testing, HBO, a James Franco thing, theater shows, songs that were supposed to make this or get played here or this tour and everything just started falling through. Now I hadn’t really worked a lot in a few years and I had been living off my savings and obviously that very costly time in my life where I lost a massive campaign with La-Z-Boy. I lost my agencies. I had a lot-
This is because of the arrests.
Of course, yeah.
I mean, as you’re talking about this now I’m realizing how cataclysmic that was for you, regardless of, I don’t want to absolve you or assign you any unfair blame. You did what you did. You made the mistakes you made, and she did too. And what happened happened. But what you’re describing, and I’m now really fully appreciating is, it had an enormous effect on you. Because you are a very public person.
I am. It’s surprising sometimes, I couldn’t believe how massive that became. That summer, it was like wildfire. It was everywhere. And I couldn’t leave the house. It was a lot. It was a lot. And this is a quiet, sleepy little town. So it was quite a of a lot of fireworks. So I felt like I had, a few years later, I’m back. But then whatever reason, I just wasn’t closing. I wasn’t closing. I wasn’t closing. And at this point, I needed to work. It wasn’t like before, like, “Next. I’ll get the next one. Okay, not this one, I’ll get the next one.” No, now I need to work. I put myself in quite a hole. I have a lot of expenses. I had elderly parents, now just my mother left at the time, a lot going on.
So for whatever reason, I just wasn’t closing. So okay, let me stay in the city a little longer after this meeting. I’ll meet the boys over on 10th Avenue after softball and have a few drinks. Oh, maybe we’ll catch the first few innings of the Yankee game, and a few drinks and then smoking on a little something. And then I’m like, “I got to drive home to Jersey.” So I think I was doing that pretty regularly.
Driving drunk?
Probably driving when I shouldn’t have been driving, just not responsible. And I just kind of caught myself and I said, “I’m going to just stop this.” I was developing this cough as well, and I had been, part of the ritual. I grew up as a Deadhead pretty much. I loved going to shows. We liked using cannabis, flower. We liked breaking it up. We liked smoking it. We loved the sort of community vibe about it.
The flower is marijuana?
Yeah.
Okay. Sorry, I’ve never heard that. Okay.
Yeah, it’s a little softer kind of way because it’s used in so many ways now, when you actually break up the flower and smoke it, that’s as old as time. That’s a lesser used kind of, I don’t know way now, I guess.
But for me, I liked that. So I would like to smoke a little than I had the pen and I’m like, “Oh, I’m in the car. Oh, maybe I could take a puff.” And I just stopped myself. I just saw it all kind of flash before my eyes. I hated the way I looked. I hated the way I felt. I went to the doctor constantly and she’s like, “You’re fine. Your heart is great. Your lungs are clear, your blood is great. What’s going on?”
So I put the weed down first. I was like, “Let me just give this a break.” Which I really had never done. Now I realized that I was taking part more incessantly than I had, ever, on top of being someone that would go to a bar and drink. So the combination was just too much, and I just needed to make a conscious decision to just kind of back off it. And it was a month, and then I stopped drinking, and that was a few months. And then it was the end of the year, and then COVID came, and I never picked it up again.
That’s amazing. Because during COVID, I mean, we know anecdotally and from research, people were turning to all sorts of substances, drinking, people were doing anything and everything to self-soothe during COVID. And that involved, for most people, a lot of substances. You newly sober, stayed that way, through that time.
I did. It wasn’t the intent to be like, “I’m in recovery now.” It was just a choice I knew I needed to make. And I’ve never been happier. I don’t think I’ve ever been happier. I imagine it’s connected to that. I know people that are in major recovery that have had near-death experiences. I’ve lost friends certainly. For me, this was just something that worked. My family hates it. Because they’re like, “You weren’t a drug addict. You weren’t a drunk.” They don’t understand what was going on with me at the time. They could only imagine being in my shoes during that intense period and thinking that you’re through it, but not really ever really getting anywhere as a result of getting through it. For me, I just needed to make a change. And it’s really worked for me.
So many people turn to substances to self-medicate something. And the problem is, initially, sometimes it works. I drank alcohol to soothe anxiety. I was terribly anxious, tremendously anxious as a child, constantly having panic attacks. And for me, a couple glasses of wine really, really worked. And then it stops working, and then it starts hurting you. In other words, I think what, and I’ve interviewed a lot of people who put down substances, whether because they’re addicted to them or just because just like you, they realize this is bad for me somehow. Why am I at the doctor all the time saying, “There’s something wrong with me.” There is something wrong. It’s obvious. Just stop drinking and smoking. Test it out, see how you feel. And so many people are so surprised by how much better they feel when they put down the thing that they were using to self-medicate something else. What happened to your depression after you put down the booze and the pot?
Well, with the advice of my doctor, I got on some antidepressants at the time, and I found them to be a really great tool to even everything out, especially at that high stakes moment in all of our lives. Lost a very, very close friend of mine early on with the COVID battle. And that was just-
Are you talking about Nick Cordero?
I am, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. That was such a terrible, tragic thing.
Yes.
His death.
Still so surreal. I was just with one of our mutual dear friends in Asia together, and we would sometimes just look at each other and just like, I don’t know. There’s just something about Nick that was just different than other people that it’s just stuck with you in this. That’s just so unfair.
Did you two meet on Broadway? Were you in a show?
We did. We have the same birthday and he came out on my Rock of Ages tour, so we toured together for a year and just became very close and just loved that guy, for sure. And Amanda and I are close as well, and she and Elvis are thriving. I’m very happy for them.
I’m curious, do you think you’ll ever decide to pick up a drink again or to go back to smoking pot at all, or are you very happy with how you feel today?
I am very happy with the way I feel today. I have no desire to drink. I think anyone with a good meal in a restaurant and the occasional thought that you might miss a glass of wine or something that pairs nicely with a meal and experience, but it’s just not for me. And I do not miss smoking weed. I don’t. It’s so funny. We had all those sort of talks when we were young, I don’t know, Deadheads or something. “One day it’s going to be legal, you’ll see.”
And now it is.
And now it’s just everywhere. I mean, it’s pouring out of every-
Unfortunately. I can’t stand the smell of it. I really can’t.
I know. It’s gotten so strong and it’s obnoxious. It is. And so it’s funny. It’s like I’m not into it. I will say this, I stuck with the antidepressants for a few years and they were very helpful for me. And I’m not opposed to, let’s say, the world of CBD and people using gummies and stuff, or microdosing, psilocybin or something else in ways too. If that’s a tool that helps you get there, I’m not necessarily opposed to that. Just the idea of being home and smoking and/or drinking, it’s just not for me. It’s just feels so ugly to me.
What’s happening with you career-wise now?
Yeah, I mean, we just got back from Asia. We were playing a bunch of shows there, which was really cool. I’m directing my first show, grew up fascinated with the greatest directors and trained with some great teachers at the Boston Conservatory and directing. Never had the opportunity to do so. I’m directing a production of Jekyll and Hyde, a show I starred in on Broadway this fall at the Havre de Grace Opera House. Looking forward to that. And we have a new record, Pieces, which kind of says it all for me, that we’re working on pushing out there this year, some cool film and TV things in the works.
I’m going to be playing a bunch of shows and just hustling. Being a dad. My daughter plays three sports. She’s on National Honor Society, the junior kind of middle school version. Yeah, she’s on the High Honor Roll, so she’s kicking butt. She gets a call sometimes from the agent once in a while, we put something on tape, and so really focused on her. We lost my mom a few months ago, so that was very difficult.
I’m sorry.
Thank you. It’s been a very tough couple of years, the last couple of years with her, and she’s very missed. Absolutely.
Constantine, thank you so much. You’re a huge talent. I can’t wait to see what you do next, and hopefully I’ll get a chance to watch you soon. If not on Broadway, then on my small screen in a theater near you. Constantine Maroulis, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me Elizabeth. Thank you.